This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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About the PhotographerMikkel Hørlyck is an independent photojournalist and visual artist based in Copenhagen, Denmark. He has a BA in photojournalism from the Danish School of Media and Journalism. He has worked as a photojournalist intern at Politiken and studied at Fatamorgana The Danish School of Art Photography. In 2019, Hørlyck was the recipient of Discovery of the Year at The Lucie Awards in New York City. His work has received awards and honors from Danish Picture of the Year, Vilnius Photo Circle, and World Report Award, among others. |
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Truth in Photography: Can you complete the sentence, “Truth in photography is…”
Mikkel Hørlyck: I think it's very crucial in the sense that to tell about other people's lives, you have to be truthful. If you're not connected with people, you cannot understand them. In connection with the people I am photographing, I kind of understand what they are going through, what they are dealing with, and the situations they are put in. And revealing the truth can also be very painful. As a journalist, you can look into matters that can be cruel and can be very, very bad for this kind of person to have a better life, that the challenges can be so big. For example, for a refugee to travel this far and reach a better life in Europe can be very, very difficult to pursue and to happen. So, telling the truth, people can sense that when I'm photographing, they can feel my intentions. They’re very good at seeing if I have good or bad intentions, because they are facing that constantly. When I meet a person with my camera, I can immediately sense that they are scanning me, if I'm good or if I'm bad. You have to be very, very truthful in why you are doing it, how you are doing it, and how you want to communicate about a story. All of this I'm saying right now is about minorities who are facing challenging circumstances. I'm talking about a little bit bigger sense here, and I would like to be more concrete, but I hope it makes sense.
Mikkel Hørlyck: I think it's very crucial in the sense that to tell about other people's lives, you have to be truthful. If you're not connected with people, you cannot understand them. In connection with the people I am photographing, I kind of understand what they are going through, what they are dealing with, and the situations they are put in. And revealing the truth can also be very painful. As a journalist, you can look into matters that can be cruel and can be very, very bad for this kind of person to have a better life, that the challenges can be so big. For example, for a refugee to travel this far and reach a better life in Europe can be very, very difficult to pursue and to happen. So, telling the truth, people can sense that when I'm photographing, they can feel my intentions. They’re very good at seeing if I have good or bad intentions, because they are facing that constantly. When I meet a person with my camera, I can immediately sense that they are scanning me, if I'm good or if I'm bad. You have to be very, very truthful in why you are doing it, how you are doing it, and how you want to communicate about a story. All of this I'm saying right now is about minorities who are facing challenging circumstances. I'm talking about a little bit bigger sense here, and I would like to be more concrete, but I hope it makes sense.
TiP: It does. It's interesting that you're talking about truth as an interaction. You’re photographing people in crisis situations. They are faced with the struggle of surviving on the Mediterranean. Talk about the nature of that interaction, and how you build trust in that interaction.
Hørlyck: If I am photographing a man who is struggling in this situation, I can do two things. I can be constructive in a tragic situation, or I can tell it like a tragedy. If I am constructive in a tragic situation, I would focus more on his will, his ability to comprehend and to manage the circumstances he is dealing with. And then trust comes. If I stay in a mindset which is constructive, something that is relatable for other people to see, like a universal emotion, for example, the will to act. In my experience, then people trust me. If I say this person is very weak, or you cannot see any sparkle of life in the person's eyes, I think the viewer will have another kind of attitude about the person you photographed. I always think of something which can move forward, which can bring life. In situations like them coming on these boats, you can see they’re using a lot of power and their will, and you can see in their eyes that they want to survive, and that is very important to both tell and talk about. And that was also the truth which I experienced in the situations.
TiP: Let's talk about some specific photographs and the nature of the interaction.
Hørlyck: If you said, can you show me one photograph on this story, which is the most important, I think is the one where one guy from Doctors Without Borders is handing out a stick to a man with this only light on him. And there's a black field all around him. I think it talks about this rawness. It's a very, very raw environment. Then you look into the water during the night and there's a refugee in the water. The act he is doing is very simple, he's giving his stick for him to survive. So, I think it's both the small story and the big story. And I think that photograph is very important to highlight in this story. Because when you think about it, the story is not new, it’s been going on for several years. But when you still look out there in the water, it is still going on. It's important to, again, focus on these universal emotions, but where it's timeless, time has floated out of the image. Do you want to help this guy, or do not want to help this guy? So yeah, it's also a political question.
Hørlyck: If I am photographing a man who is struggling in this situation, I can do two things. I can be constructive in a tragic situation, or I can tell it like a tragedy. If I am constructive in a tragic situation, I would focus more on his will, his ability to comprehend and to manage the circumstances he is dealing with. And then trust comes. If I stay in a mindset which is constructive, something that is relatable for other people to see, like a universal emotion, for example, the will to act. In my experience, then people trust me. If I say this person is very weak, or you cannot see any sparkle of life in the person's eyes, I think the viewer will have another kind of attitude about the person you photographed. I always think of something which can move forward, which can bring life. In situations like them coming on these boats, you can see they’re using a lot of power and their will, and you can see in their eyes that they want to survive, and that is very important to both tell and talk about. And that was also the truth which I experienced in the situations.
TiP: Let's talk about some specific photographs and the nature of the interaction.
Hørlyck: If you said, can you show me one photograph on this story, which is the most important, I think is the one where one guy from Doctors Without Borders is handing out a stick to a man with this only light on him. And there's a black field all around him. I think it talks about this rawness. It's a very, very raw environment. Then you look into the water during the night and there's a refugee in the water. The act he is doing is very simple, he's giving his stick for him to survive. So, I think it's both the small story and the big story. And I think that photograph is very important to highlight in this story. Because when you think about it, the story is not new, it’s been going on for several years. But when you still look out there in the water, it is still going on. It's important to, again, focus on these universal emotions, but where it's timeless, time has floated out of the image. Do you want to help this guy, or do not want to help this guy? So yeah, it's also a political question.
TiP: What's the nature of that interaction, in terms of your presence with the camera, or are they paying attention to the fact that you have a camera?
Hørlyck: I think some, they might see it, b ut in this situation, they're not paying attention to it because I'm photographing very quickly. And when we are there on these boats, there are, one woman just in front of me, who is a nurse, and in front of him, there's a guy from Germany. And in front of him, there's a guy from Argentina, as you see with the stick. We are four people, where the first one helps immediately, and then the second one comes and helps with the arm, and the other one with the next arm. Then I come and I don't photograph when it's my turn, then I help.
TiP: So you're also engaged in what's going on. You're helping to save them.
Hørlyck: Yes. That was the deal with Doctors Without Borders. If the situation turns out critical, it will be nice if you want to help. Also, they know that I am a strong person physically and mentally. I had the experience both to do the journalistic work and to help in a situation like this. They were happy, the Doctors Without Borders crew, and also the refugees and migrants, that he's also a human with a camera.
Hørlyck: I think some, they might see it, b ut in this situation, they're not paying attention to it because I'm photographing very quickly. And when we are there on these boats, there are, one woman just in front of me, who is a nurse, and in front of him, there's a guy from Germany. And in front of him, there's a guy from Argentina, as you see with the stick. We are four people, where the first one helps immediately, and then the second one comes and helps with the arm, and the other one with the next arm. Then I come and I don't photograph when it's my turn, then I help.
TiP: So you're also engaged in what's going on. You're helping to save them.
Hørlyck: Yes. That was the deal with Doctors Without Borders. If the situation turns out critical, it will be nice if you want to help. Also, they know that I am a strong person physically and mentally. I had the experience both to do the journalistic work and to help in a situation like this. They were happy, the Doctors Without Borders crew, and also the refugees and migrants, that he's also a human with a camera.
TiP: How did you get involved in this project? What's your background?
Hørlyck: When I was young, in my young twenties, I was in the Danish army for three years. And after that, I got involved with photography in this high school where you have six months of learning. And then I got into photojournalism and one of the stories which began during the starting studies of photojournalism was actually this story. I remember I had this sense about, I think I have a journey with the refugee and migrant story, whether it's going to be in Denmark or internationally, I don't know yet, but I had this strong sense to the story, so I was attracted to tell about it at some point. I had to do some other projects in order to get ready, for example, during a critical rescue where there are a lot of things at stake. I could both do a good job as a humanitarian and do a good job as a professional, as a photographer.
TiP: What is the attitude toward refugees in Denmark?
Hørlyck: In Europe we are kind of far away from the borders where people would actually come. But politically, they do not take so many people into the country. For example, Italy, where many of the refugees and migrants will come to after being saved on the water and the Mediterranean Sea, had thousands of people. Where Denmark, they didn’t help as much as, for example, Italy. I think many people think that Denmark will help a lot more than they do, by helping the other EU countries with a big influx of people. But then again, there's a kind of attitude that is a little bit like: “we have a good life here, why should we help?” It's a little bit hard to say it like that, but that's how the attitude is. To be very truthful.
TiP: How did you become involved with Doctors Without Borders?
Hørlyck: It is an organization I always admired and wanted to actually work together with. I actually just asked them through an email, pitched my project No Man's Land, which is about civil areas and migration to Europe. They liked my pitch and liked my vision and idea, and they have a list of photographers who they can call to. I was very happy that they pointed me out because they could have chosen other people from big news media and so on. Now we have a good connection towards other projects.
TiP: What is the role of photography in the work of Doctors Without Borders? Are the photographs used for advocacy?
Hørlyck: They have a clear line that they want to bring in color photography. It’s their vision about photography. I’ll say that there are certain values of community, freedom, and progress which I think are important here, and I think are very truthful. What do you want to dedicate yourself to, the community and us? That's very important. I think it's very crucial for a person of humankind to say if they want to be part of a community or not, because I think we're born with the certain idea, that if you want to have a good life, you have to participate in a community. So, to answer your question, very strict. They have an idea about journalists, that they have to tell it how it is. They don't want to interfere.
Hørlyck: When I was young, in my young twenties, I was in the Danish army for three years. And after that, I got involved with photography in this high school where you have six months of learning. And then I got into photojournalism and one of the stories which began during the starting studies of photojournalism was actually this story. I remember I had this sense about, I think I have a journey with the refugee and migrant story, whether it's going to be in Denmark or internationally, I don't know yet, but I had this strong sense to the story, so I was attracted to tell about it at some point. I had to do some other projects in order to get ready, for example, during a critical rescue where there are a lot of things at stake. I could both do a good job as a humanitarian and do a good job as a professional, as a photographer.
TiP: What is the attitude toward refugees in Denmark?
Hørlyck: In Europe we are kind of far away from the borders where people would actually come. But politically, they do not take so many people into the country. For example, Italy, where many of the refugees and migrants will come to after being saved on the water and the Mediterranean Sea, had thousands of people. Where Denmark, they didn’t help as much as, for example, Italy. I think many people think that Denmark will help a lot more than they do, by helping the other EU countries with a big influx of people. But then again, there's a kind of attitude that is a little bit like: “we have a good life here, why should we help?” It's a little bit hard to say it like that, but that's how the attitude is. To be very truthful.
TiP: How did you become involved with Doctors Without Borders?
Hørlyck: It is an organization I always admired and wanted to actually work together with. I actually just asked them through an email, pitched my project No Man's Land, which is about civil areas and migration to Europe. They liked my pitch and liked my vision and idea, and they have a list of photographers who they can call to. I was very happy that they pointed me out because they could have chosen other people from big news media and so on. Now we have a good connection towards other projects.
TiP: What is the role of photography in the work of Doctors Without Borders? Are the photographs used for advocacy?
Hørlyck: They have a clear line that they want to bring in color photography. It’s their vision about photography. I’ll say that there are certain values of community, freedom, and progress which I think are important here, and I think are very truthful. What do you want to dedicate yourself to, the community and us? That's very important. I think it's very crucial for a person of humankind to say if they want to be part of a community or not, because I think we're born with the certain idea, that if you want to have a good life, you have to participate in a community. So, to answer your question, very strict. They have an idea about journalists, that they have to tell it how it is. They don't want to interfere.
TiP: Talk about why you don't make color photography and why have you chosen to do black and white photography.
Hørlyck: I was actually quite sure that I wanted to do this project in color photography. And then my girlfriend, who I am living with as well, she said a few days before that, “why are you not doing this in black and white?” and then something changed for me. I understand what she was referring to because this is about life or death. If you succeed to come to Europe, you will live. If you don't, you might die on the water. Or you are going to get intercepted by the Libyan coast guards. So, getting into this atmospheric sense of, either you conquer death, or you don't conquer death. Then I think black and white photography was crucial to do it, because it's abstract, but is still in this essence of the atmosphere. I remember how strong it was after we saved these 41 people who really thought that they would die, that they had this strong connection between each other, that they have conquered death. It was like a warrior spirit between them that they made it.
TiP: Do you feel there's a deeper truth in black and white photography?
Hørlyck: It depends on the personality of the photographer and the condition which is portrayed. I made another project about immigration to Europe that was very peaceful between the people in Greece and the people who were living in a refugee camp nearby. It would have been extreme to do that in black and white, I think, and I made that in color. This project about migration to Europe has both chapters with black and white photography and color, and it's divided by what kind of a place we are. In a very peaceful atmosphere, I have chosen color, and when it's more conflict based, when there's really things at stake, I have been more likely to do black and white photography.
Hørlyck: I was actually quite sure that I wanted to do this project in color photography. And then my girlfriend, who I am living with as well, she said a few days before that, “why are you not doing this in black and white?” and then something changed for me. I understand what she was referring to because this is about life or death. If you succeed to come to Europe, you will live. If you don't, you might die on the water. Or you are going to get intercepted by the Libyan coast guards. So, getting into this atmospheric sense of, either you conquer death, or you don't conquer death. Then I think black and white photography was crucial to do it, because it's abstract, but is still in this essence of the atmosphere. I remember how strong it was after we saved these 41 people who really thought that they would die, that they had this strong connection between each other, that they have conquered death. It was like a warrior spirit between them that they made it.
TiP: Do you feel there's a deeper truth in black and white photography?
Hørlyck: It depends on the personality of the photographer and the condition which is portrayed. I made another project about immigration to Europe that was very peaceful between the people in Greece and the people who were living in a refugee camp nearby. It would have been extreme to do that in black and white, I think, and I made that in color. This project about migration to Europe has both chapters with black and white photography and color, and it's divided by what kind of a place we are. In a very peaceful atmosphere, I have chosen color, and when it's more conflict based, when there's really things at stake, I have been more likely to do black and white photography.
The Safi family are on their way home to the Nea Kavala refugee camp from the village center, where they spent Sunday afternoon eating late lunch in the town's small park.
Mohammad has fled with his Afghan family from Iran, through Turkey and across the Aegean Sea to Greece. Since 2017, his family has been on the run. They are waiting to get their asylum case through, so they can move on. They haven’t heard any news about their asylum case for eight months.
“My wife has myriads of thoughts. She is very stressed. In her head and in her heart. About the Taliban, the journey across the sea from Turkey to Greece, the seven months on Lesbos and fights in the camps," says Mohammad. © Mikkel Hørlyck
TiP: This particular series that you're focusing on is about refugees on the Mediterranean, where are the refugees from?
Hørlyck: They're actually from Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. A lot of different countries. And the Doctors Without Borders, they had personnel from South America, North America, and Europe. There was even a marine crew, who were sailing the boat, who I think were from Asia. All the world of nationality was very present in this story, which really surprised me, and there was a migrant from Bangladesh who traveled away, because of poverty and political problems. Where in the Middle East and Africa it was more war, but also poverty. And for example, in Libya, there's also torture and stuff like that. It's a lot of different reasons why people are going away from their home countries. I remember in the beginning of the journey we met a doctor on board from Italy, and he had this very strong look in his eyes. I was very curious to meet the people who were actually from Doctors Without Borders, who they are, their personality, and so on. And they were very nice and very friendly and had a very good sense of humor, very fun to talk to as well. I didn't know what to expect from them. But one thing that was very clear to me and showed itself through the whole journey is how professional they were. They're very good at looking at the smallest details and then understanding the big view of what was going on. They had the attitude like they wanted to be the best of themselves. And they had their hearts in the right place. It was really an emotionally strong trip also to meet the people. There was a lot of love going on, this strong emotion. I remember this specific photograph of a guy from Pakistan who looks close up to the camera, which I photographed with a zoom lens. It really touched me a lot to do these close ups of people who were lying on the deck after they have been rescued on the water. And talking about truth again, the truth is based on love for the actions of Doctors Without Borders, also for me as a photographer. It was an experience I will never forget.
Hørlyck: They're actually from Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. A lot of different countries. And the Doctors Without Borders, they had personnel from South America, North America, and Europe. There was even a marine crew, who were sailing the boat, who I think were from Asia. All the world of nationality was very present in this story, which really surprised me, and there was a migrant from Bangladesh who traveled away, because of poverty and political problems. Where in the Middle East and Africa it was more war, but also poverty. And for example, in Libya, there's also torture and stuff like that. It's a lot of different reasons why people are going away from their home countries. I remember in the beginning of the journey we met a doctor on board from Italy, and he had this very strong look in his eyes. I was very curious to meet the people who were actually from Doctors Without Borders, who they are, their personality, and so on. And they were very nice and very friendly and had a very good sense of humor, very fun to talk to as well. I didn't know what to expect from them. But one thing that was very clear to me and showed itself through the whole journey is how professional they were. They're very good at looking at the smallest details and then understanding the big view of what was going on. They had the attitude like they wanted to be the best of themselves. And they had their hearts in the right place. It was really an emotionally strong trip also to meet the people. There was a lot of love going on, this strong emotion. I remember this specific photograph of a guy from Pakistan who looks close up to the camera, which I photographed with a zoom lens. It really touched me a lot to do these close ups of people who were lying on the deck after they have been rescued on the water. And talking about truth again, the truth is based on love for the actions of Doctors Without Borders, also for me as a photographer. It was an experience I will never forget.
TiP: Are there people who do not want to have a photograph of them made?
Hørlyck: I remember there was one guy who didn't want it, and that was kind of it. I told him about my intentions with the story, and asked him if I could photograph. And then he said, “No, you cannot.” And the reason is that he doesn’t want the world to know where he is right now, because maybe his family thinks he is another place and stuff like that. So, we had a conversation. You can also talk with a mediator from Doctors Without Borders, who understands Arabic and English and other languages, which makes communication even more smooth, if there's a problem with direct conversation with the people.
TiP: When you make these photographs, are they recording the stories of the people, or are they just helping them?
Hørlyck: There’s people from Doctors Without Borders who are making these testimonies, where the people who are refugees and migrants tell Doctors Without Borders of their journey and what they have been through. And in Bosnia and Herzegovina, I did a project where I talked to people about their testimonies. For me, ethically on this trip, it would be too much to open up very painful conversation in interviews, because we were on a deck. There are waves and so on. I'm more focused on the general text, which I heard from Doctors Without Borders. Then I am more focused on my captions telling what is exactly going on in this situation.
TiP: What other kinds of photography have you done?
Hørlyck: I've followed a guy called Jørgen, who was a drug addict. I followed him for six years, and he died in 2021. I had become very near to him, and this story was actually in the Danish newspaper Politiken, over 20 pages. They dedicated a whole number to his story. I did a story about an orphanage in Moldova, which was an old institution of disabled and mentally ill people. We have done several stories about minorities, but also a family who lost one of their nearest to coronavirus, which was a very normal family.
Hørlyck: I remember there was one guy who didn't want it, and that was kind of it. I told him about my intentions with the story, and asked him if I could photograph. And then he said, “No, you cannot.” And the reason is that he doesn’t want the world to know where he is right now, because maybe his family thinks he is another place and stuff like that. So, we had a conversation. You can also talk with a mediator from Doctors Without Borders, who understands Arabic and English and other languages, which makes communication even more smooth, if there's a problem with direct conversation with the people.
TiP: When you make these photographs, are they recording the stories of the people, or are they just helping them?
Hørlyck: There’s people from Doctors Without Borders who are making these testimonies, where the people who are refugees and migrants tell Doctors Without Borders of their journey and what they have been through. And in Bosnia and Herzegovina, I did a project where I talked to people about their testimonies. For me, ethically on this trip, it would be too much to open up very painful conversation in interviews, because we were on a deck. There are waves and so on. I'm more focused on the general text, which I heard from Doctors Without Borders. Then I am more focused on my captions telling what is exactly going on in this situation.
TiP: What other kinds of photography have you done?
Hørlyck: I've followed a guy called Jørgen, who was a drug addict. I followed him for six years, and he died in 2021. I had become very near to him, and this story was actually in the Danish newspaper Politiken, over 20 pages. They dedicated a whole number to his story. I did a story about an orphanage in Moldova, which was an old institution of disabled and mentally ill people. We have done several stories about minorities, but also a family who lost one of their nearest to coronavirus, which was a very normal family.
TiP: What have been your color subjects?
Hørlyck: Actually, in migration, where there's more peaceful atmosphere and the family from Denmark/Greenland, who lost a very close father and husband to coronavirus. And then, for a different commissioned work, I photographed a nun in a very, very quiet cloister, which I did in color. Also, in the first days of coronavirus, remember where everything was shut down. There was this almost apocalyptic atmosphere, and I made a project about in color. It was very cinematic.
TiP: If you have in your mind that you're making black and white photographs rather than color, then you're perceiving the truth differently. You see it differently. There's the subject, and then there's these other people who are involved. There's a lot of interaction going on, and all of that impacts the nature of what you're doing.
Hørlyck: I just have a final note to that. I remember when I was a young boy and I was playing football in our garden, and then my sister asked me what I was doing and I said, “I’m playing football and I am very happy. I am very truly happy.” Then my family discovered that I was talking with myself when I was playing football, talking out loud. In my head, I was both the audience to the football game and I was the football players themselves. I was both teams and I was commentating on the game. So, what was making me happy? It was both the act of playing football, but it was also communicating on a higher level, right? I remember at a very young age, this made me happy. And later on, I got to photography, because then I could communicate on all these levels. It's quite interesting.
Hørlyck: Actually, in migration, where there's more peaceful atmosphere and the family from Denmark/Greenland, who lost a very close father and husband to coronavirus. And then, for a different commissioned work, I photographed a nun in a very, very quiet cloister, which I did in color. Also, in the first days of coronavirus, remember where everything was shut down. There was this almost apocalyptic atmosphere, and I made a project about in color. It was very cinematic.
TiP: If you have in your mind that you're making black and white photographs rather than color, then you're perceiving the truth differently. You see it differently. There's the subject, and then there's these other people who are involved. There's a lot of interaction going on, and all of that impacts the nature of what you're doing.
Hørlyck: I just have a final note to that. I remember when I was a young boy and I was playing football in our garden, and then my sister asked me what I was doing and I said, “I’m playing football and I am very happy. I am very truly happy.” Then my family discovered that I was talking with myself when I was playing football, talking out loud. In my head, I was both the audience to the football game and I was the football players themselves. I was both teams and I was commentating on the game. So, what was making me happy? It was both the act of playing football, but it was also communicating on a higher level, right? I remember at a very young age, this made me happy. And later on, I got to photography, because then I could communicate on all these levels. It's quite interesting.
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